It seems last night some people really got fired up by the lack of honesty among you dodgeballers. While the refs can only see so much, if you get hit and they don't call it, you usually will go out. Well one team in particular had quite a few missed calls and kept playing because no one called them out. Tsk, Tsk, let's hope you play fair in flip-cup at least. xoxo
69 comments:
Yeah, there's nothing like Ben calling someone out because he heard it hit something. Didn't see it, HEARD it. oh and was it Jen on Duplex that, after taking a ball of the face and hand, while standing up, he said, and I quote "It hit her in the face but its not a head shot". Oh, and whoever was on the front court calling out players on our team twice for not throwing after 5 seconds when the rule clearly says it's supposed to happen twice before you lose a player. It'd be nice if all the refs knew the rules, or if they refuse to read the rules followed the SAME wrong rules instead of each of them having their own set.
I get that this is all just for fun, and it is, I've had a BLAST this season and can't wait for next season, but having fun is a little harder when things just straight up aren't fair.
Matt Leiker of Splash who was hit by the ball multiple times, acknowledged he was hit, yet refs didn't see and didn't go out.
If you know you got hit, you should do the right thing and go out. Also as a team if you know your teammate is out, tell them, don't encourage/enable bad sportsmanship by not saying anything.
this whole league suffers from bad sportsmanship. if you can't cheer for a winning team, regardless of their status, then shut the fuck up.
Matt was making a point. If we're going to get called out for shit that didn't happen because the refs say we're out, then if the refs don't say we're out why should we go off? Was it the best choice? No, but Matt has been a wonderful captain ALL SEASON and has been all about fairness and sportsmanship. IF he thought shit was bad enough for him to make a point like that then CLEARLY SHIT WAS BAD.
And if we want to start naming names of people who don't go out when they're clearly hit, then let's name names, cause there's more than hand full of people who don't go out, regularly, like every week.
*cough* Dtox *cough*
you mean like 1/2 of eastern block. they get hit all the time but never leave the court unless the ref calls them out. then they argue they were even hit.
stop the bullshit. if you get hit, your out.
Like 1/2 of Eastern Block won't leave the court if the ref's don't call it, even tho they knew they got hit. And that new guy doesn't call sh*t. Is he smoking the same thing the mushroom loving ref girl was on last year?
Some serious bullshit if you get hit and refuse to leave. I got my eye on all your cheaters.
LOL I love the comment about the mushroom loving girl ref from last season. She was sooo on a whole different planet. I like Ben and Craig as refs. The back court was fair.
Guys, it's really, really tough to ref these games, the speed of the ball and the angles make accuracy from the center of the court difficult at times. They really do their best. This season is the best the reffing has EVER been, mostly attributable to the development of the league.
I think a good solution would be to have the shagging team serve as linesmen, calling people out or helping see things from a different angle. This is similar to what the volleyball league does.
I agree with 2:46 re: the shagging team.
But as good as the reffing has been this season compared to past seasons (which i keep hearing, I haven know opinion on that as this is my first season, but I believe it when people say it) it's a problem that the refs aren't all operating under and enforcing the same set of rules. Each one of them has their own set, despite the fact that the BAD! website has a page of rules.
Chance. We all ref by the same rules. Simmer down.
Some refs are more stringent than others in how those rules are enforced, due to their personalities, but they're all relatively the same dear.
First of all, I don't understand why there's so much hate towards Eastern Bloc on here. We like each other and say nothing ill about any other teams. Sorry your teams aren't as fun; not our problem. If we argue a call it's because either A) we don't know what they are calling, or B) we don't know what set of rules the refs are playing with that night.
Rules keep changing during games and through the season. I love rules. They are what make a sport hard and I support them. They just need to be consistent. Chance is right in saying that changing the ball countdown rule on the last week of regular play is stupid. I also agree that the shagging team should be back line judges. Take away one more spot the refs need to watch. 8 eyes are better than 4.
People then say if you don't like it, fix it. Fine. If there's a board position for rules and regulations, I'm your guy.
We also have an issue with there being TOO MANY refs on the court. When you are a spectator don't shout calls. It's distracting to the real calls and usually under the influence of bias. People love to see great people fall and quickly call to the refs the moment they see anything suspect with, say Eduardo or Symmes or Cutrone. We pay these men to ref the games, so let them do it. They don't need your help screaming from the bench.
"They don't need your help screaming from the bench."
PREACH!!!
NO, YOU DON'T. I know for a fact the rule regarding a team not throwing the ball after 5 seconds is not enforced the same way by all the refs (or even in line with the way it's written). Same goes for cycling players during the game and adding a player during sudden death. Or head shots. or high balls, though that's gotten more consistent the last few weeks.
It's pretty obvious not all the refs have read the rules page.
Simmer down Chance. You'll have a heart attack.
Excuse you?
Also, Chance, you're wrong on several points. Just FYI.
Chance - I was the one who through that ball at Fred. It clearly went through his hands. I heard it from across the court as I was following the ball the entire time. The fact that Ben heard it as well reinforced it.
Mikey - I love you to death, but we didn't play Eastern Bloc last night and I clearly remember you on the court at some point during one of my matches - not sure if it was vs. Splash or David Barton - but you were talking to one of the refs about a call he made in our match. I'm just saying that you might want to take your own advice on that one.
If there is a dispute, it should be handled between the refs and the captains of the teams that are playing, and that's it. Bad calls happen all the time in professional sports - sometimes it goes your way, sometimes it doesn't. Unless BAD wants to invest in some instant replay technology, I think this is something we all need to accept and move on. I think the shagging team being another set of eyes is a FANTASTIC idea, and I won't argue that having all refs on the same page regarding the rules, despite differences in personalities, is a no-brainer. But not going out after clearly getting hit just to prove a point is juvenile and can't be justified because "he's been a wonderful captain all season". Bullshit. Get off the court.
I say all of this in the interest of fairness. There are a number of times that I've not been hit but have been called out, and I've never successfully argued my way out of it. The ensuing argument only leaves a bad taste in people's mouths. Just accept it and move on. It'll all come out in the wash.
mikey- the nerve of you. you stopped our game last night to tell the refs what you thought the call should have beeen AND your team wasn't even playing. WTF? And i believe your team knows when they get hit (they also admit it after) but refuse to leave the court, unless the refs call um out. no one likes a cheating fool.
Care to share which ones J? or are you just gonna say I'm wrong and not back it up?
Also Matt, bullshit is the refs not knowing the rules. Bullshit my having players sent off TWICE for something that was only supposed to receive a warning. Bullshit is Jen on Duplex taking a ball off the face and Ben saying "it hit her in the face but its not a headshot". Bullshit is being called out when a ball lands three feet in front of you three feet in front of the ref.
Like I said, Matt made a poor choice in how he made his point last night, but it was a point that needed to be made.
Gee Chance, and you wonder why people don't really like you...
You might want to check yourself before you wreck yourself.
Really 4:17, I wonder that? Are these people that don't like me the same ones that compliment me every week? or tell me how glad they are I joined the league, or even, DARE I SAY IT, tell me how much they love how much I don't give a fuck what people think about what I say on Gossip Gays, and that I usually say what they're thinking?
Is it those people? Or is you, and your coward ass that's too afraid to stand behind what you say to put your name on it?
If someone doesn't like me, good for them, I'm not FOR EVERYBODY, I'm like those TV shows that have the little warning at the beginning about some of the content not being appropriate for all viewers. Not everyone's gonna watch it, hell not everyone that watches it is gonna like it, but those that do, LIKE IT A LOT.
IT'S. GAY. DODGEBALL.
Chance -- calm the fuck down. No one cares.
Rule 9.C. "If a team has more than one ball per player on the court, that team will have 10 seconds to throw a ball, as will be warned by the referee. Not throwing a ball within the 10-second time frame will result in a player from that team being called OUT by the referee."
Rule D then goes on to state that if a team controls ALL the balls and does not throw, then they will be given a violation. Then Rule E says that two violations will result in someone being called out.
Now, if this is confusing; if there's something about this you do not understand or like, then I would suggest taking it up with someone on the board (in a perhaps more civilized and rational tone than you've exhibited here on GOSSIP GAYS) and you'll probably get somewhere.
J. I know the rule, I pointed out the problem with it to Eduardo last night, rationally, calmly, and HE AGREED WITH WHAT I SAID.
The rule is not being enforced as written. The way the rule is being enforced is that if a team has a majority of the balls on the court (or if both teams have 2 balls) they get a countdown to throw. But that's not in the rules ANYWHERE. The rules say that 9C)if a team has more balls than players, or 9D)if the team in the lead has ALL of the balls, then they have to throw in the countdown. I think the way it's being enforced is better than how it's written, but the point remains, that its not being enforced how its written.
Matt-
To your point, I was the shagging team and the ref asked me and Osada, who was shagging on the other side what had happened. If I hadn't been called over I would have let the bad call ride.
You blow it again Matt, and it's keggers with kids all next year.
Smooches,
Mikey
Eduardo is in charge of overseeing the refs, if you have any beefs about the rules, how the refs call the rules, etc take it up with him. Although to be honest, its so late in the season its almost a mute point.
I agree, i wish all the refs were more consistent and assertive with their calls. I know its not an easy job, can't see every play, etc.
I know a lot of people don't like Ben but he is the most consistent and true to the rule book.
Chance - Great that you and so many other people are so passionate about the game, etc but it is just that, a game. So try not to get too upset/worked up about bad calls, etc
This is true. The rulebook has not been updated on the site after we posted it at the beginning of the season. Why? Issues started coming up not on day 1, but as the season has been happening. I am sure next season the rules everybody has sent emails about to league@bigappledodgeball.com will be revised and hopefully we'll have a better experience when being enforced.
P.S1> Mike, and whoever is interested, you guys will hear soon about being part of different committees. It would be awesome if all this energy is kept up to that day.
P.S2> I didn't see what happened with Jen, but certainly someone being hit in the face does not imply he/she was hit by a head shot. Excuse my English if I don't understand then the differences between those two. Hitting a player in the face when, say, they get on their knees should not be considered a head shot.
Eastern Block cheats.
And they are corny.
Rock on, haters.
I hope Mike Feeeeeeelio is my baby's daddy one day.
Also, Chance, this is gay amateaur dodgeball. Not the NBA, NFL or even the USA's National Women's Synchronized Swimming Team. You gotta chillax, homie.
@4:51
You make some awesome points but....
It's "moot" point, my dear. Not "mute."
Just sayin'
Eduardo,
RE. Jen, she was standing straight up, wasn't diving, or moving around, she didn't move into the ball, it just hit her in the face and hand. I didn't hear the reasoning that Ben gave after someone else on duplex talked to him, but she was standing and took it off the face. 11A) "NO HEADSHOTS OF ANY KIND: A player who throws a ball that hits an opposing player above the shoulders while that player is upright will result in the player who threw the ball being called OUT."
"Mikey" F (Your name is Michael. You are not a little boy.)
You should check yourself because I'm pretty sure you just wrecked yourself. You are in NO position to talk! YOU complain about everything etc etc and on and on ad nauseum.... This was not the right topic to chime in on. Hypocrisy is not cute.
Work it out, Chance.
Matt - the ball didn't hit me. As you said, it went THROUGH my hands. Completely through. Totally embarrassing because I did try to catch the ball and completely missed. What you (and the ref) 'heard' was another ball hitting Eric, not me. I've always prided myself on (and been complimented for) my honesty when I play the game because after all it is just a game.
The refs do the best job they can and I talked to Ben afterward and hugged it out because he's a friend (and who doesn't love his hairy chest?). Its all in fun. And we all know that what really matters is how much scandal someone creates when they start a flipcup game anyway :)
Why does everyone think that just because I care that I'm not calm. Just cause I'm arguing with you on GG doesn't mean I'm not calm. On the contrary, I'm quite at ease right now.
Also, I realize this is "just gay dodgeball," but that doesn't mean that rules shouldn't matter or that the refs shouldn't know them. I mean, if we wanna go your route, with this "just being gay amateur dodgeball," then let's just get rid of the refs, let's call our own games, put everyone on the honor system, and not keep track of who wins. If that's what we wanna do, then that's fine. But I'm a competitive person, and so, when I get put in competitive situations, I compete. And that includes caring about how the rules are enforced and that the people enforcing them are consistent. And please, don't let the fact that I've expressed, repeatedly, problems with things, make you think I haven't enjoyed myself, because that's just not true. I've had an AMAZING time over the last three months. Before I joined this league I could count, on 1 hand, the number of times I'd been to a gay bar, and if you take away the times it was for someone's birthday, I could count it on one finger. The post-plays have helped me feel comfortable in gay bars, something I wasn't before(that was true for all bars in general, but especially the gay ones).
I bring up my problems with these things because I care, about the league and plan on playing again.
What the hell are you talking about 5:08? I never said I don't complain. I know I complain, I complain about bad calls and the refs not knowing/enforcing the rules. And what topic did I chime in on that was hypocritical? I never told anyone else not to complain. so, maybe you got confused about how to use that word?
Chance,
5:08 was on your side, debating against Mikey. I write this because you've got enough people here to debate without picking another argument with one of your defenders over a misread post.
And, for the record, I think everyone's a little bit right, and everyone's a little bit wrong. It's a tie. As Mike Brady would say, "[something reasonable in this space]."
Oh shit,
Thank you flojo (or flohen) for putting me in my place. I totally misread that post.
SORRY 5:08, my bad.
This is why I should go back to sleep when I wake up at 8 am after a night of drinking instead of getting up and watching season one of Saturday Night Live on Netflix all day.
wow. this is INTENSE!!! No one's begging anyone to be here... i'm sure suggestions are always wanted-- but make them to the commissioner, right?? Why use GG as a place to debate!! Let's just gossip already.... who was making out last night!??! : )
You and Moureau.
Nice way to feed into Scott E's ego.
If I wasn't looking at porn right now, I'd read all of this.. it's quite entertaining... Give me about 30 mins or so, then you'll get a REAL response!
Nick can you video it for me?
Well, first off... GG, thanks for making ME the 'poster child' for this debate!
After reading all of this... and there's a lot, I honestly have to say (and I know there are people who don't like this word, sorry, look away now) this is one hell of a CUNT fest!
I'm pretty sure I can speak for all of the refs that it IS NOT AS EASY AS WE THOUGHT... there's so much happening and to watch (4 balls, 12 players, boundaries, throws, catches, bounces etc..), that 4 eyes can only do and SEE so much.
All of us refs have read AND actually understand the rules. We HAVE had 'ref meetings' before and throughout the season, discussed rules and scenarios etc. We all have agreed on different 'changes' and ways to enforce stuff as the season progressed, unfortunately, it seems like it didn't make its way throughout the league or the 'rule book' as it should've.
All I can say is; if, IF there is a call you disagree on have your captain SPEAK to a ref about that call. I have no problem stopping a game for a few seconds to explain a call if asked, or even after a game is over to any player. However, if a team is just going to scream and cry about things I have no reason to explain it. Ultimately ANY refs call IS final.
Now, as for myself... going into this season I told myself (and this is coming from a former player as well):
A. I will only call what I SEE.
B. I will not let people screaming from the sidelines influence me
C. I will stand behind my calls
and mostly importantly
D. I will call as fair and honestly as I can (knowing my limitations, knowing I WILL miss calls, knowing I CAN sometimes make the wrong call etc)
We as refs can't STOP people from cheating, I'm sorry, we're not gods. Just imagine if there were no refs, it would be a mess. I do agree I find it pretty shitty when people know they get hit or their ball caught and don't go out, again, if I don't see it, I can't and won't call it, no matter how much a team cry's. I do my best to call each game the same and vary little. We all enforce differently and 'interpret' the rules our own way.
To me, there are certain BLACK and WHITE rules... boundaries, center line, and count downs. These are spelled out, there is no in between. As for the rest, it's quite a shit show (mostly in a fun way!).
Every season there are rule changes and modifications, and I'm sure there will be some after this season as well, and only for the better.
I truly enjoy getting out on Monday nights with about 150 of my friends, reffing, hanging out, and of course drinking!!!
I'm really looking forward to next season and making BAD even BADder!
And a message to those cheaters.... remember, Santa's watching bitches!
7:02...... if you weren't anon, I could've emailed it to you, sad :(
Oh... one last thing...
to the people who have actually given us a pat on the back and realize it's a thankless job and show some appreciation (from all the refs)...
THANKS, it really does mean a lot!
(Shame it won't get you brownie points! Oh, and I will admit, I truly HATE HATE HATE calling all you hot boys out, I do enjoy the eye candy on the court!)
This is all so crazy.
Players argue with refs. That is a fact. No matter who the refs are, the players will argue with them over "bad" calls. And the players will be wrong sometimes and the refs will be wrong sometimes. It is also a well documented truth that players cheat... IT IS PART OF ANY GAME. Are we really using GOSSIP gays as a forum to discuss sportsmanship and refereeing??
Which leads me, Mr. Anonymous, to my next point...
Chance, are you kidding? Like lets really think about this... WHY ARE YOU WRITING ABOUT BAD CALLS and calling people out BY NAME on gossip gays? If you are such a vigilante for perfect game calling/rule enforcement why don't you speak the refs after the game...
Or better yet, why don't you: a) GET OVER YOURSELF or b) look into the long standing relationship between refs and players throughout sports and realize that why you are saying is pointless, misplaced, and unrealistically idealistic.
This shit is not a good look, boo.
LET'S GOSSIP. I heard that someone was using GG in an inappropriately serious way to voice grievances about gay dodgeball rule enforcement... one guess as to who it was.
Feel free to bring your face over here at any time so I can sit on it. You have a problem with me talking about it blame GG. THEY Posted the entry about the reffing. Oh and look. There's about ten other people in this discussion so why don't you shut the fuck up you worhtless cunt. I'm not the only one talking about the reffing.
HAHAHAH! Fat Chance! (get it?!)
Unfortunately for you, I will not be saying anything to your face.....thus depriving you of your once annual opportunity for sexual interaction. And futhermore, as much as I love guys sitting on my face, I am not suicidal you self-important whale.
Why do you have to be so dislikable, buddy? Doesn't it get lonely squished up there in your ivory tower?
Awww the cowardly lion continues to meow.
And I had a sex guest yesterday, thank you very much. Jus because no one would even fuck you for practice doesn't mean you have to get bitter.
I have something I'd like to slip through Fred's hands...that boy is smokin' sexy..woof ;)
Chance, I generally think of you as a good guy, but some of your posts lately are coming off very defensive and angry. Those aren't good colors on anyone. Plus, people only use cuss words to supplement small vocabularies. Anyway, cheer up, man! Lots to be happy and thankful for. 'Tis the season after all.
Gee, why might I be defensive after some anonymous, unwashed, neanderthal miscreant (I have a fine vocabulary thank you, I swear because its more concise and a bigger stress reliever than "unwashed, Neanderthal miscreant" is) who couldn't get a man to touch him with someone else's dick starts calling me fat and unwanted?
And you know what, I am angry. I'm sick of people like this douchebag that probably has the personality of someone in a persistsnt vegetative state thinking that because he weighs less than me tha he's better that me., that because I'm fat I'm somehow less of a person.
So, in my concise fashion, fuck him and anyone like him with the business end of weed whacker.
Hey Fred, I think all the refs have cute hairy chests...
Ben has a killer smile to go with his
Emailing league@bigappledodgeball.com to propose a 'no bitchassness' rule. Also, Mikey the ref rocks my face off. Kisses, y'all!
i propose a ref hairy chest and smile pageant - next monday at gym bar. refs will be judged on hair pattern, hair and lip thickness (separately of course... we don't want any hairlips unless your joaquin phoenix), and whiteness of teeth. i'll be happy to help judge!
I would like to help judge that contest with you, Fred. I'm thinking it'll have to be very tactile and hands-on.
Ben has a great furry chest, a killer smile, and the personality of a box of razor blades. It's really too bad the guy is such a douchebag. So much potential there :-(
Fred should take part in the competition at gym bar..he would surely win
Ben's actually not a douchebag. He tells it like it is, which most people can't handle.
i love the refs, and hate this bitchiness, can we get back to talking about esther and her pull-up video? HOTNESS!
play on playas!
To everyone with nothing better to do but bitch about the refs: Get a job, or a social life, and calm the fuck down. The refs do their best. I'd like to see you try to be in their shoes for one night refing for almost three hours straight.
This season things have gotten far too serious. When I joined a year ago this league was fun. I knew all the guys and girls, and just came out on Monday nights to throw some balls, and have a few drinks with friends.
Now I don't even look forward to it. Too many players (and teams) has resulted in not knowing everyone, and my team playing at 9pm all season.
The BAD board has a great challenge in this off season to get things oraganized and bring some fun back into the league. But i'm going to ask everyone else too... if you want a serious sport league go play something else.. but on the dodgeball court, let's just have some fun.
@Chance - you're my hero. Keep it up!
@Nick - Videos of you jerking off should be posted publicly for everyone to enjoy!
@BAD - New Rule - 1 Guy or Gal on your team has to play with his/her shirt off. Yum.
@cyre - I agree with that last one
@tara
How is everyone supposed to have fun if you are saying they don't have a job or a social life? That seems counterintuitive.
It is well known that people are more likely to accept the outcome (say for example, a match) if they believe that the process (say for example, the refereeing) was fair.
Belittling people never makes them feel good.
Oh, will everyone please shut the hell up and just show up on Monday with attitudes and negativity checked out the door. Good game, people -- let's play. [END]
I'm a competitive person also (somewhat/sometimes) but I'm doing BAD much more for the fun and friends. Competition/winning adds to the nights/seasons fun, but character of the league is longer lasting.
Maybe there are at least two things to remember which affect the character of BAD (and of the player): 1. we should always go out when we KNOW we are out (that's pretty straight forward, albeit not always easy) and 2. we should be mindful/careful of when we manipulate the order of players (i.e. not having some play/rotating falsely/even controlling who throws). Its a competition, true, but its also in the setting of a group of people who have likely all been marginalized, diminished, and excluded in some way over the years. One function of BAD and other gay leagues, in addition to fun and competition, is to undo some of those experiences, not repeat them. Some people don't care being sidelined, some just don't THINK they care, and others are clearly offended (and I'm not talking about me here). Its in these extreme times (tournaments) that values/character matter most, not least.
Also, RE: #1, if YOU take the competition seriously, then especially YOU should take the rules seriously (if ref calls it or not).
And off the soap box...
I had a GREAT time AGAIN this season. BAD is an awesome group of gay people and those who organize it do an amazing job, overcoming many obstacles/hassles. Thank you all for the great times and esp to the committee and refs for all their work. And thanks Duplex, we were a great team :-) See you next season. :-)
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